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Ikiganiro JMV NDAGIJIMANA yagiranye n’abanyamakuru ku bufatanye hagati ya sosiyete sivile nyarwanda n’amashyaka ya politike atavuga rumwe n'ingoma y’igitugu ya Polo Kagame
Ikiganiro cyateguwe na TFR - Tribune Franco-Rwandaise
TFR : Murakoze Bwana Ndagijimana kuduha iki kiganiro. Mu biganiro mumaze iminsi mutanga ku maradiyo anyuranye, ntimwahwemye gutanga ibitekerezo n’ibyifuzo by’imikoranire hagati y’amashyaka ya politike aharanira demokrasi nyayo mu Rwanda na sosiyete sivile yibumbiye mu Inama Mpuzabikorwa ya sosiyete sivile Nyarwanda (CCSCR) mubereye umuvugizi n'uwungirije Umuhuzabikorwa. Mwasobanuye ko iyo nama mpuzabikorwa igamije gukorera hamwe ibishoboka byose kugira ngo ifashe abanyarwanda kwivana ku ngoyi y’igitugu n’ubukene, muhashye ihohoterwa rya rubanda, ubwicanyi bwabaye akarande n’iterabwoba ribuza abanyarwanda kugoheka, tutibagiwe ifungwa ry’abatavuga rumwe n’ingoma ya FPR ya prezida Kagame. Ese ni iyihe mpamvu mukomeje gusaba ubwo bufatanye kandi bigaragara ko amashyaka amwe n’amwe atabishaka ?
JMVN :
Urakoze kumbaza iki kibazo kigezweho muri ibi bihe. Ndibutsa ko ku ruhande rwanjye atari ubwa mbere nsabye abo duhuje imigambi guhuriza hamwe ibitekerezo n’ibikorwa byazahura u Rwanda. Abakurikira amateka y’ivuka ry’amashyirahamwe ya sosiyete sivile, mashyaka amwe n’amwe cyangwa ingaga mpuzamashyaka zimwe na zimwe mu ziriho, bazi ko nagiye ngira uruhare mu kuyashinga cyangwa kuyigira imishinga. Siniriwe mvuga amashyirahamwe ya sosiyete sivile ndimo arazwi. Nakwishimira gusa ko umushinga wo guhuriza hamwe ibikorwa by’imiryango yacu wageze aho uravuka kandi utangiye kugaragaza injyana ihagaze neza n’ibikorwa bifatika. Icyo twaharaniye kuva kera njye n’abandi bagenzi banjye duhuje urugamba rwa demokrasi ishingiye ku kwubahiriza ubuzima bw’abanyarwanda, ni uguharanira uburenganzira bw’abanyarwanda nta vangura cyangwa kubera igice kimwe, no kwishyira ukizana mu rwatubyaye, haba mu buzima busanzwe cyangwa mu bikorwa bya politike.
TFR : Murakoze kuba mutubwiye muri make ibikorwa mwagiye mugiramo uruhare, uretse ko ntawabivuga ngo abirangize. Tugaruke ku ngingo yo gusaba ubufatanye hagati y’amashyaka aharanira demokrasi mu Rwanda. Ko buri shyaka ryigenga, ni iki gituma ukomeza kuyasaba gukorera hamwe ?
JMVN : Umushinga wo guhuriza hamwe ibitekerezo, ingufu n’ibikorwa ushingiye ku cyifuzo cy’abanyarwanda. Si ubwa mbere tubigerageza kandi biri hafi kuba impamo. Ndibutsa ko kw’italiki ya 9/9/2017, ku butumire bwa CCSCR-Inama Mpuzabikorwa ya sosiyete sivile nyarwanda, abahagarariye amashyirahamwe ya sosiyete sivile n’amashyaka ya politike anyuranye bagize ibiganiro i Bruseli bagashinga icyiswe URWUNGE, ruhuriyemo n’imiryango n’amashyaka yaje muri iyo nama. Abatarabashize kuyizamo nabo batumenyesheje ko bashyigikiye icyo gikorwa kandi ko tuzakomeza ibiganiro kugira ngo duhurize hamwe ingufu mu nkundura y’ubwigenge na demokrasi. Iyo ni intambwe ikomeye twagezeho. Byumvikane neza, URWUNGE si ishyaka, si plate-forme cyangwa urwego rukumbi rwashyizweho nka muvoma ya kera. Uretse ibikorwa byumvikanyweho ko bishobora gukorerwa hamwe kugira ngo birusheho kugira uburemere, ibisigaye byose bizakomeza gukorerwa mu mashyirahamwe n’amashyaka hakurikijwe ingamba za buri muryango.
TFR : Mugamije iki rero ?
JMVN : Abanyarwanda bahanze amaso sosiyete sivile n’amashyaka aharanira demokrasi, ubumwe, amahoro n’imibereho myiza y’abaturage.
Urugomo n’ubugome bw’ubutegetsi buriho mu Rwanda bimaze kurenga inkombe. Abategetsi bakomeje guhohotera abatavuga rumwe nabo, guhiga bukware ndetse no kwica ababuhunze, gufunga no kwica abanyapolitiki batavuga rumwe n’ingoma ya FPR, gufunga no kwica abasirikari bakuru bifuza amahoro nyayo, abaharanira uburenganzira bwikiremwamuntu no kwishyira ukizana, abanyamakuru n’abaturage basanzwe, gusahura igihugu, gukenesha rubanda bamburwa ibyabo, gukandamiza abaturarwanda no gukoresha iterabwoba riniga uburenganzira bw’Abanyarwanda. Ingero ni nyinshi nta wazirondora ngo azirangize. Vuba aha, ntitwabura kwibutsa ifungwa n’izimizwa ry’abayobozi bamwe ba FDU-Inkingi, ifungwa ry’umwari Diane Rwigara na maman we ndetse n’abo bavukana nyuma yo kwica umubyeyi wabo Assinapol Rwigara.
Nkuko dukunze kubivuga cyangwa kubyandika, igihe kirageze ngo impinduka nyakuri zishyirwe mu bikorwa mu nzira ya demokarasi ishimangira ubumwe, amahoro n’ubwiyunge mu ubworoherane. Muri urwo rwego, abanyarwanda benshi kimwe n’abanyamahanga basesengura ibibazo byacu basanga itatana, amatiku n’ubushyamirane hagati y’amashyaka ya politike atavuga rumwe na FPR-Inkotanyi aribyo byongera ingufu z’ubutegetsi bw’igitugu mu Rwanda.
TFR : Ni iki kibabwira ko Abanyarwanda bahanze amaso sosiyete sivile n’amashyaka ?
JMVN : Iki ni ikibazo cyiza. Ni koko Abanyarwanda benshi batwandikira cyangwa batuvugisha, baba abatuye mu Rwanda cyangwa mu mahanga, bahuriza ku bibazo by’ingutu n’inzitizi zikomeje kudindiza urugamba dusangiye rwo gutabara u Rwanda n’abanyarwanda.
Baragira bati:
- Gutatanya imbaraga, guhangana, kumashana, gusebanya hagati yacu ku maradiyo no mu binyamakuru by’amashyaka ya opposition amwe n’amwe, byongerera ingufu ingoma y’igitugu n’abayitsimbarayeho. Bati ese ntimubona ko ayo matiku mubamo afasha ingoma ya Kagame mwirirwa mwamagana kandi mu by’ukuri muyifasha kuramba ?
- Abanyarwanda n’inshuti z’abanyamahanga bakongera bati ni kuki mukomeza kuryana mupfa ubusa mu buhungiro, kandi muzi neza ko muramutse mushyize imbere ibibahuza, mukagira gahunda y’ibikorwa-shingiro mwumvikanyeho byaha abenegihugu ingufu zo kuzahura u Rwanda no gushinga imizi ya demokarasi burundu?
- Iyo murasana imyambi y’amagambo buri munsi kuri murandasi (Internet) isomwa n’abadukandamiza, mwiha amenyo imbere y’abo mwitwa ko murwanya, muzi ko muba mwivamo bigatuma umwanzi wanyu amenya aho abakandira ? Ibyo se byongerera abademokrate ingufu cyangwa byongera iz’ubutegetsi bw’igitugu bworetse u Rwanda?
- Abanyarwanda barababaye tugomba kubumva kuko aribo dukorera. Barasaba abayobozi b’amashyaka ya opposition na sosiyete sivile kuva ku ngeso mbi yo kwanga guhura na bagenzi babo kubera inzangano, gusuzugurana no kwironda, kuko baba bahima abanyarwanda.
- Icyo cyifuzo cya rubanda kidusaba kumenyera umuco wa demokrasi wo kubwizanya ukuri mu bwubahane, kwiyumanganya, tukirinda kworora ubwirasi no kwanga kuva kw’izima, kandi tukemera ko gutanga ibitekerezo byubaka bitagomba gufatwa nko kwishyira imbere.
- Irindi hame abatwandikira bagarukaho kenshi, nuko kudahuza ibitekerezo ku bintu byose bitagomba kuba intandaro y’inzangano no gupingana, intandaro y’intambara y’amagambo cyangwa y’imyambi.
- Koko rero, niba hagati yacu tutihanganira abatubwira ukuri, ahubwo tugashaka kwigira ibigirwamana, tugakoresha igitugu n’iterabwoba, twaba turusha iki abategetsi b’ingoma y’igitugu n’ikinyoma ya FPR dushaka guhindura ?
- Niba mu kurangiza impaka hagati yacu mu mashyaka cyangwa mu mashyirahamwe twibumbiyemo dukoresha umujinya, agasuzuguro, kwikunda, kwirata, kutoroherana, gusebanya, gutukana ndetse n'ubugambane, niba tunanirwa kwimakaza umuco wa « DIALOGUE » na demokrasi hagati yacu, kandi twirirwa dusaba kugirana imishyikirano n’abari ku butegetsi bayogoje igihugu cyacu, bakaba batinyuka no kuza kutwicira iyo twahungiye, Abanyarwanda bakwemera bate ko duharanira inyungu zabo na demokrasi turirimba buri munsi ? Batwizera bate ?
TFR : Hakorwa iki ngo abaharanira amahoro na demokrasi babone urubuga rwisanzuye rwo guhurizamo ibitekerezo n’ingufu kandi rufatirwamo ibyemezo byumvikanyweho mu nzira ya demokarasi, mu bworoherane no mu bwitange ?
JMVN : Imyumvire yanjye ari nayo CCSCR yagejeje ku mashyaka ya politike aharanira demokrasi mu Rwanda ishingiye ku ngamba zifatika :
- Nkuko abanyarwanda babyifuza, tugomba guhindura imikorere. Igihe kirageze ngo buri wese yigomwe ashyire inyungu z’abanyarwanda hejuru y’ibidutanya n’ibidusubiza inyuma.
- Kwiyumvisha ko turi mu bibazo n’ibihe bidasanzwe bisaba ibisubizo bidasanzwe, ni yo ntambwe ya mbere buri wese agomba gutera kugira ngo duhurize ibitekerezo n’ingufu zacu hamwe, tumenye gukora ikintu mu mwanya wacyo, dushyize imbere ibyihutirwa kurusha ibindi.
TFR : Mwakomeje kuvuga ibikorwa cyangwa ibibazo byihutirwa kurusha ibindi. Mwatanga urugero ?
JMVN :
1. Muri urwo rwunge, icyambere cyihutirwa ni ugutabariza Abanyarwanda, ababyeyi n’abavandimwe bacu batotezwa bakicwa urubozo mu Rwanda, bityo hagakorwa ibishoboka byose ngo ubwo bwicanyi n’ihohoterwa bihagarare, abanyarwanda bahumeke amahoro.
2. Icya kabiri ni uguharanira ko habaho urubuga rusesuye rwa politike (espace politique) mu Rwanda, ruha buri wese amahirwe yo kugaragariza abanyarwanda ibitekerezo n’imigambi myiza bibafitiye akamaro, mu bwisanzure, ubwubahane n’ubworoherane. Muri iki gihe urwo rubuga nta ruhari. Kugira ngo ibyo bigerweho rero, ni ngombwa ko ingoma y’igitugu n’ubwicanyi isimburwa n’ubuyobozi bwunga abanyarwanda, inzego z’ubutegetsi buri munyarwanda yibonamo. Iyo nshingano ntitwayigeraho mu gihe tumarana hagati yacu.
3. Icya gatatu nuko inkundura ya demokrasi igomba gusigasirwa n’ibitekerezo bitegura impinduka kugira ngo amagorwa y’abanyarwanda arangire burundu. Koko rero, guhindura cyangwa kuvanaho ingoma y’igitugu ni intego nziza, nyamara ntibihagije. Amateka y’u Rwanda n’amahanga atwigisha ko iyo bikozwe mu rufefeko cyangwa mu muvundo, bikurikirwa n’umwiryane, ingoma y’igitugu igasimburwa n’iyirusha ubukana nkuko byagenze mu Rwanda muli 1994, cyangwa igakurikirwa n’icyuho cy’imivu y’amaraso n’imiborogo nkuko tubibona mu bihugu byinshi nka Iraki, Misiri, Libiya, Syria, Somaliya n’ahandi henshi.
4. Kugira ngo twirinde izo ngaruka z’ihinduka ry’ubutegetsi ridafitiye abaturage akamaro, ni ngombwa ko amashyaka ya politiki, ingaga za sosiyete sivile zivugira abaturage, abayobozi b’amadini ndetse n’impuguke n’inararibonye zinyuranye, bahura bakiha igihe cyo kuganira, bakubaka umushinga wo kugera ku nshingano ya demokrasi iboneye bose, ishingiye ku ubutegetsi n’imitegekere ihumuriza abanyarwanda bose.
TFR : Murakoze kuba muduhaye izi ngero. Ariko na none umuntu yakwibaza bati ese ko ibibazo n’ibitekerezo bikubiye muri iyi nyandiko nta gishya kirimo, ko ingamba zivugwamo zihora zishimangirwa mu manama anyuranye ahuza abanyarwanda n’inshuti z’U Rwanda hirya no hino ku isi, habuze iki ngo tubigereho?
JMVN : Ku mibonere ya CCSCR, kugeza ubu icyananiranye ni uguhuza imvugo n’ingiro. Nyuma y’imyaka itari mike amashyaka n’amashyirahamwe agerageza gukora ibyo ashoboye, igihe kirageze ngo twemere kwicisha bugufi no kwagura amarembo y’ubufatanye, kugira ngo duhe abanyarwanda n’inshuti z’u Rwanda ibimenyetso ko dushobora kurenga ibidutanya tukubaka u Rwanda rubereye bose kandi ruha urubuga abatavuga rumwe, mu bwisanzure n’ubworoherane.
Muri make, igihe kirageze kugira ngo abaharanira impinduka ya demokrasi bereke abanyarwanda ko bafite amatwara meza kandi bagendera ku mahame anyuranye n’uw’abayoborana u Rwanda igitugu muli iki gihe, kandi ko ibintu biramutse bihindutse ubuyobozi bushya butahohotera abanyarwanda bubaziza ubwoko bwabo, ibitekerezo byabo cyangwa bubambura umutungo wabo nkuko bimeze ku ngoma ya FPR.
TFR : URWUNGE mwashinze ruzakora iki kugira ngo izo nshingano zigerweho?
JMVN : Twemera ko abantu badashobora kuvuga rumwe kuri byose. Ariko nanone, twemera ko ibihuza abanyarwanda biruta kure ibibatanya. Niyo mpamvu twashinze urubuga duhuriyemo rwo kurwanya akarengane n’akababaro abanyarwanda baterwa n’ubuyobozi bubi bubabuza guhumeka. Ibyo ntibyagerwaho tutihaye intego n’ingamba rusange duhurizaho (programme minimum commun) igaragaza ko twipakuruye imikorere irangwa n’igitugu, ubwibone no kwishyira imbere, ari nabyo turega ubutegetsi bw'u Rwanda. Tugomba kwishyira hamwe tukunganira impirimbanyi za demokrasi zikorera mu Rwanda, tugahora tuzishingana, tuzitiza ingufu zo guhangana n'inzego z'iterabwoba zitoteza, zishimuta zikanica abavugira rubanda.
Ikindi, nkuko nabivuze haruguru, kugirango duhe abanyarwanda n’inshuti z’u Rwanda icyizere cyuko tutazakora nk’ibyo tunenga ubutegetsi bw’igitugu bwa FPR, tugomba kwiyemeza kurangwa n’amahame (Code de bonne conduite) y’ubworoherane, tukagena uburyo twakorana mu ukuri no mu bwubahane, uburenganzira bureshya, kwihanganirana, kwuzuzanya mu bitekerezo, kujya impaka zubaka, no kugaragaza ubwitange bwubaka kandi butizigama.
Indi mpamvu yumvikana, ni ikibazo cy’ingutu tutakwirengangiza cyo kubura amikoro. Abaharanira demokrasi baramutse biyemeje gukorera hamwe ibikorwa bahuriyeho, ubushobozi bwaboneka. Ubutatane buvunisha Abanyarwanda n’inshuti dusaba inkunga n’imisanzu (fundraising) mu buryo butatanye, n'uduke tubonye tukadukoresha mu bikorwa bitatanye.
Aho kugira ngo buri shyirahamwe cyangwa buri shyaka rijye risaba inkunga mu buryo butatanye, ibyaruta nuko URWUNGE rwagira abaruhagararira mu Rwanda n’ahandi hose kw’isi, maze uwo mushinga ugashyikirizwa abatera-nkunga icyarimwe n’ijwi rimwe. Tubigenje dutyo twaba tworohereje akazi abanyarwanda baduhanze amaso, bikanaha icyizere abagiraneza b’abanyamahanga bifuza kudutera inkunga mu nkundura ya demokrasi.
"Dufitiye abanyarwanda ideni ry'ukuri"
TFR : Mwatubwira nk'imishinga mwashobora gukorera hamwe mu buryo bufatika bwagabanyiriza abanyarwanda akababaro ?
JMVN : Ibikorwa twakagombye gufatanya kugira ngo tugire umusaruro mwiza ni ibikurikira :
- Kuvuga ukuri ku mateka y’u Rwanda. Duhereye ku mateka ya vuba, mpamya ko tuzi ukuri ku bwicanyi n'ibusahuzi FPR yakoreye abanyarwanda. Bamwe muri twe bakoranye n'iriya ngoma. Twicaye tukandikira hamwe inyongwa rya espace politique, amatora ya prezida anyuranye n'amategeko, ihonyorwa ry'itegekonshinga, akarengane n'ihohoterwa ry'abanyapolitike ndetse n'abanyarwanda muri rusange, ivanguramoko riri mu nzego z'ubuyobozi no mu mihango yo kwubahiriza inzirakarengane zakorewe itsembabwoko, itsembabantu n'ibindi byaha ndengakamere.
- Tubwire abanyarwanda n'amahanga ukuri ku bwicanyi FPR iri ku butegetsi yakoreye abanyarwanda. Mbisubiremo, Abenshi muri twe bazi ukwo kuri kuko bakoranye na FPR. Dufitiye abanyarwanda ideni ry'ukuri.
- Twandike "RPF'S UNTOLD STORY" iherekejwe n'igihe n'aho ubwicanyi FPR yakoze bwabereye (RWANDA & RDC MAPPING REPORT".
- Nitubikorera hamwe ingoma y'abicanyi izanyerera yiture hasi himikwe demokrasi mpuzarwanda
- Imvano y'ibyo byose ni imiterere y'inzego z'ubutegetsi butavugirwamo. Inzego zidaha abanyarwanda ubwinyagambure n'ubuhumekero butuma bagira uruhari mu kwubaka urwababyaye.
- Twumvikane ku miterere y'ubuyobozi bushya duteganya bugamije guca burundu ingoma z'udutsiko n'igitugu, dusinye igihango gishya cy'ubumwe na demokrasi
- Twitwaje ibyo byemezo tuzaba twumvikanyeho, Ni biba ngombwa dushyireho inzego za "ALTERNATIVE" ikorera mu buhungiro ;
- Twumvikane ku buryo bwiza bwo kurwanya no kwamagana ibinyoma bikoreshwa n'ingoma y'abicanyi n'uburyo bwo kuvana kw'izima abanyamahanga bayishyigikiye. Ibi byakorerwa mu matsinda twakwishyiriraho tukagisha n'inama abanyarwanda babizobereyemo.
- Gushyigikira urubyiruko rw'impirimbanyi (activistes) zikomeje gutotezwa no kwicwa mu Rwanda
- Gukorana n'amashyaka akorera mu RWANDA yagaragaje ko aharanira ukuri na demokrasi koko
- Kuvugisha ijwi rimwe mu kwumvisha amahanga ikibazo cy’impunzi z’abanyarwanda, gufasha impunzi cyane cyane abagore n'abana
- N’ibindi
TFR : Nyakubahwa Ambasaderi murakoze, niba kandi mufite icyo mushaka kugeza ku banyarwanda mwasozerezaho umwanya ni uyu ijambo ni iryanyu.
JMVN : Ndagira ngo mbwire abakeka ko haba hari icyihishe inyuma y’umushinga w’URWUNGE ko nta nyungu zirwihishe inyuma, uretse gushaka icyatugeza ku bumwe kikanatwongerera ingufu zadufasha kugoboka abanyarwanda muri ibi bihe by’amayira abiri. Mbisubiremo, URWUNGE si plate-forme nshya, si ishyaka rishya, kandi si urwego rwo kubangamira amashyaka asanzwe akorera muri za plate-forme bigaragara ko zafashije abademokrate kumenyera gukorera hamwe mu bwuzuzanye. Mboneyeho gushimira abishyize hamwe muri izo ngaga zinyuranye.
Tubaye tubashimiye kandi mugire amahoro n’umugisha w’Imana.
Jean-Marie Vianney NDAGIJIMANA
Umuvugizi w'Inama mpuzabikorwa ya sosiyete sivile nyarwanda