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GEN KAYUMBA NYAMWASA ATI "NAKIJIJE KAGAME ABANDI BAMUSIZE YIHISHE MU RUTOKI"
30/11/2013 02:14
Imyaka 3 nyuma y’ibikorwa byo gushaka kumwivugana muri Afrika y’Epfo, uwahoze ari umugaba mukuru w’ingabo z’u Rwanda, général Kayumba Nyamaswa, yemeye kugira icyo avuga ku byo yaciyemo igihe bashakaga kumwica, ubuzima bwo mu ishyamba ari mu ngabo za FPR, n’uburyo Perezida Kagame yateshutse ku ntego bari barihaye igihe bahagurukaga bagafata intwaro bagatera u Rwanda mu 1990.
Ibi Kayumba Nyamwasa yabitangaje mu kiganiro yagiranye n’umunyamakuru Robert Mukombozi i Johannesburg ho muri Afrika y’Epfo .
Gen Nyamwasa, abantu benshi baguye mu kantu bamaze kumva inkuru y’iraswa ryawe mu gihe habaga imikono y’igikombe cy’isi. Mu by’ukuri uwo munsi byagenze bite?
Nari mvuye mu nzu ikorerwamo ubucuruzi guhaha n’uko tugeze ku muryango winjira aho nari ntuye, nabonye umuntu ufite imbunda n’uko umushoferi wanjye afungura ikirahure cyo ku ruhande ako kanya wa muntu antunga imbunda ahita andasa mu nda, nyuma habaye kugundagurana hagati yanjye n’uwo washakaga kundasa ku bw’amahirwe nashoboye kurokoka kuko imbunda y’ushakaga kunyica yakwamye igihe twagundaguranaga. Nyuma najyamywe kwa muganga, ibyakurikiyeho benshi murabizi.
Mu gikorwa cyo gukurikirana abashatse ku kwica, bivugwa ko bamwe mu bakozi bagukoreraga baba baragize uruhare mu icurwa ry’umugambi wo kukwivugana. Ese wigeze ukeka ko bashobora gukora ibyo bintu?
Nta na gato rwose. Nari mfitiye icyizere gisesuye abankoreraga bose cyane cyane uregwa mu bashatse kunyica Numero ya 4 wari umushoferi wanjye. Umunsi nahunze u Rwanda, niwe wanyambukije umupaka hagati ya Uganda n’u Rwanda, naramwizeraga cyane. Yari yagumye muri Uganda mu gihe njye nakomezaga muri Afrika y’Epfo. Amaherezo amaze kumenya ko ubuzima bwe bugeramiwe i Kampala kimwe n’izindi mpunzi z’abanyarwanda, nakoze uko nshoboye muzana hano muri Afrika y’Epfo.
Nyuma yaho twaragumanye, nari mufitiye icyizere gisesuye, twamufataga nk’umwe mu bagize umuryango wacu, nyuma twaje kumenya ko yari yaraguzwe na Leta y’u Rwanda. Abashakaga kunyica ndetse n’abo bashakaga kunyica ntabwo bari banzi nanjye ubwanjye sinari mbazi.
Abo bantu bantu bakoze icyo gikorwa cyo gushaka kunyica batanzi bari bakoreshejwe n’undi muntu unzi ushobora kuba ari Leta y’u Rwanda nari narahunze. Ariko ubu ikigaragara cyane ni uko abo bashatse kunyica bafite ababunganira mu mategeko bahenze cyane muri kino gihugu. Ninde wishyura ayo mafaranga yose? Ko abo bantu bashatse kunyica mbere y’uko bagerageza icyo gikorwa ntacyo bakoraga kizwi cyashoboraga gutuma babona amafaranga yo kwiyishyurira abababuranira bahenze kuriya.
Nyuma y’igikorwa cyaburiyemo cyo kuguhitana, ubu wumva ufite umutekano?
Ntabwo ari njye njyenyine wugarijwe na Leta y’u Rwanda igihe cyose. Usomye ibinyamakuru byo mu gihugu cya Uganda ukanavugana n’impunzi z’abanyarwanda ziba Uganda, zimwe muri zo zarashimuswe, abandi baricwa mu gihe hari n’abihishe. Ni ukuri ubuzima bw’impunzi z’abanyarwanda ni nk’intambara ikomeye ntabwo ari njye gusa uri muri ubwo buzima.
Wizera ko nawe ushobora kwirwanaho?
Nibyo twatangiye kwirwanaho, ariko ntabwo uburyo dukoresha ari bumwe n’ubwo uwo duhanganye ari we Leta y’u Rwanda akoresha. Twe dukoresha inzira y’amahoro kugira ngo ibintu bihinduke, twizeye ko abanyarwanda bazishyira hamwe bakarwanya ubutegetsi bw’igitugu bubakandamiza, iki kibazo ntabwo ari ikibazo twihariye twenyine cyangwa ngo kibe ari cyo cyonyine dufite.
Byabayeho henshi kw’isi aho abaturage bageze aho bagahagurukira kurwanya ingoma y’igitugu mu miterere yayo ishyize imbere kwica abantu. Si ibyo gusa kuko twashinze umutwe wa politiki witwa IHURIRO NYARWANDA (RNC) dufatanije n’abandi twashyizeho ubufatanye na FDU-Inkingi n’ishyaka AMAHORO. Twizeye ko twese hamwe tuzashobora kongerera ingufu tukanatera akanyabugabo’abandi banyarwanda maze tugahirika ingoma y’igitugu.
Noneho nta gahunda y’intambara mufite.
Oya, ariko hari igihe bigera aho ibintu biba bibi cyane nk’uko byagenze mu bindi bihugu aho inzira z’amahoro zakoreshejwe ariko ubutegetsi bw’igitugu bugasunikira abaturage mu kimeze nk’amaburakindi bityo abaturage bagakoresha inzira y’intambara. Ariko twe ntabwo turagera aho.
Muri iyi minsi muri Afrika y’uburasirazuba ibikorwa byo gushimuta impunzi z’abanyarwanda byariyongereye, aho hibasiwe cyane cyane abanyeshuri n’abahoze ari abasirikare baregwa ngo gutegura ibikorwa byo guhungabanya umutekano w’u Rwanda…
Ibyo birego nta shingiro bifite. Nifuzaga mbere na mbere guhera kuri murumuna wanjye bwite (Lt Col RUGIGANA NGABO) umaze imyaka itatu mu buroko. Niba hari umuntu mu Rwanda twashoboraga gukorana, umuntu wa mbere twari gukorana ni murumuna wanjye ariko mu gihe nahungaga ntabwo najyanye nawe, nashoboraga guca iwe nkamufata tukagenda. Ariko byatwaye amezi 6 yose maze guhunga babona kumufunga. Ntabwo wavuga ko abantu bose banyitirirwa bakorana nanjye. Nta kabuza ko hari abantu mu Rwanda bashyigikiye RNC ariko ntabwo bishatse kuvuga ko bakorera Kayumba.
Hari amakuru aturuka mu gisirikare cy’u Rwanda, avuga ko Perezida Kagame ntawe agipfa kwizera bitewe n’uko ngo waba ushyigikiwe n’ibice bimwe by’igisirikare. Ayo makuru yaba afite ishingiro?
Nibyo nategetse ingabo, byo sinabihakana. Nari umwe mu bantu bakomeye muri FPR. Nagize inshuti nyinshi. Ntabwo ari umwihariko kuri yewe kuko n’abandi barimu Rwandaniko bimeze ubu. Icya ngombwa sinjye ahubwo ni icyo ndwanira. Nzi neza ko benshi muri FPR no mu ngabo banshyigikiye ariko sinjye bashyigikiye nk’umuntu ahubwo bashyigikiye icyo mparanira. Icyo dushaka ni ukwibohoza, binturutseho ni byiza ariko binaturutse ahandi nzi neza ko nabyo babishyigikira.
Tuvuze ku byo kwibohoza, wagiranye ubucuti bukomeye na Perezida Kagame mu gihe FPR yari mw’ishyamba no mu myaka yakurikiyeho muri Leta. Ubu Kagame aravuga ko uteza umutekano muke mu gihugu ndetse uri umunyamafuti utubahirizaga inshingano zawe. Ni iki cyasenye ubucuti mwari mufitanye?
Perezida Kagame azi neza ko twakoranye byinshi na benshi muri bagenzi banjye ariko hagati yanjye nawe hari ubucuti bukomeye. Hari aho nsanga ko namufashije igihe abantu bose batifuzaga kumufasha, ibyo byabayeho kabiri kose.
Kagame nawe arabizi neza wenda ni nayo mpamvu twari dufitanye ubucuti bukomeye. Namukuye mu kaga aho abantu benshi bifuzaga ko yahasiga ubuzima.
Ibyo Kagame arabizi neza, ahanini icyo twapfuye ubucuti bwacu bugasubira inyuma ni ku binjyanye n’imitekerereze ku ngengabitekerezo ya FPR.
Hari aho byageze FPR isa nk’aho itakigikora ngo yiteze imbere ubwayonk’umuryango ahubwo bisimburwa n’ibikorwa byo kuzamura no guteza imbere umuntu umwe ari we Paul Kagame. Ni ikintu ntemeraga.
Icya kabiri, hari ikibazo cya Dr Joseph Sebarenzi wahoze ategeka inteko nshingamategeko, watotejwe kubera ibirego by’ibihimbano. Nanze gushyigikira ibyo bintu, Kagame ntabwo byamushimishije. Hari kandi n’ibikorwa by’ubwicanyi bitemewe n’amategeko byakorwaga mu Rwanda hifashishijwe DMI n’abasirikare barinda Kagame, byabaga Kagame abizi njyewe simbimenye. Nyuma y’ubwo bwicanyi bunyuranyije n’amategeko bwamenyekana bukagerekwa ku bandi bantu.
Icya gatatu hari ikibazo cya Pasteur Bizimungu. Bwana Bizimungu akiri Perezida yateshejwe agaciro anahimbirwa n’ibirego byinshi.
DMI, yategekwaga na Jack Nziza n’abandi icyo gihe bashatse gufunga Pasteur Bizimungu, nabyitambitsemo ndabirwanya kugeza igihe ngiye mu mahugurwa mu Bwongereza babona kumujugunya mu buroko. Ahanini ubucuti bwanjye na Kagame bwatangiye gucumbagira guhera muri 1997, byageze mu 2003 bwararangiye burundu.
Wigeze kuvuga ko wakijije ubuzima bwa Kagame kenshi mu gihe mwari mu ishyamba. Byagenze bite?
Icyo gihe twari ahitwa Nkana (mu cyahoze ari Komini Kiyombe, muri Byumba) ndakeka byari mu kwezi k’Ukuboza 1990, twari tumaze gutsindwa urugamba. Tumaze gutsindwa ku rugamba abasirikare bacu bari bahunze ariko Kagame we ntabwo yari azi ko abasirikare bose bahungiye muri Uganda. Narimo negeranya inkomere nsanga Kagame yihishe mu rutoki.
Numvishije bamwe muri bagenzi bacu ko tugomba kumutabara tukamukurayo ariko kubera uko Kagame ateye na nyuma y’urupfu rwa Fred Rwigema ntabwo abantu bamukundaga ndetse arambwiye ngo nimwihorere. Natekereje ko bitari byiza kumwihorera maze nsubira inyuma ubwanjye.
Nasubiyeyo ndamuzana, yari aho yazubaye atazi n’aho abasirikare bari, nawe ubwe ntiyari azi aho ajya. Nuko bukeye mu kandi gace kitwa Kanyantanga (muri Komini Kiyombe, Byumba) mu ijoro umwanzi yari yatugose. Kagame we yari asinziriye mu ihema rye atazi ibyabaye.
Nabonye amakuru y’uburyo dushobora kurwana dushaka inzira isohoka, ku munsi ukurikiyeho twatsinzwe urugamba, nasubiyeyo njya gukura Kagame mu ihema yarimo njya kumuhisha mu nzu y’umuntu muri Uganda.
Benshi mubo twari kumwe aho Kanyantanga baramwisekereye bari bamuhinduye urwamenyo, bavuga ko batamushaka. Bamwe mu basirikare bakuru bamwisekereye icyo gihe ubu baracyari mu gisirikare nk’abasirikare bo hejuru, ntabwo navuga amazina yabo kubera umutekano wabo ariko bariyizi. Iyo ntashyiraho akanjye, njye na Nyakwigendera Col William Bagire ibye biba byararangiye.
Ushatse kuvuga ko kugirwa umukuru w’ingabo za FPR kwa Kagame byari n’impanuka?
Nibyo byari nk’impanuka. Umuyobozi nyawe wari wemewe na bose yari Maj Gen Fred Rwigema. Twatakaje umuntu, twatakaje umuyobozi, twatakaje umuntu abantu bari bakunze kandi bibonagamo. Birumvikana ko iyo Kagame aza kuba umuntu wa ngombwa mu gutegura no gushyira mu bikorwa imigambi yo gufata u Rwanda, ntabwo Maj Gen Rwigema aba yararetse Kagame ajya mu mahugurwa muri Amerika.
Kuri wowe hari abandi basirikare bakuru bashoboraga kujyana u Rwanda mu nzira yo kwibohora nyabyo? Byarashobokaga ko bashoboraga gufata ubutegetsi ibintu bikagenda ukundi, igihugu kikajya mu kindi cyerekezo?
Barahari benshi, ariko bateshejwe agaciro bahindurwa ubusa, ntabwo ushobora kubabona ubu mu bijyanye na politiki mu Rwanda. Ni akaga gakomeye!
Ariko Kagame we yemeje ko icyo mwapfuye ari uko washakaga guhungabanya Leta kandi utubahirizaga inshingano zawe.
Wowe se urumva Kagame yavuga ngo iki? Ibyo yabivuze ku bantu hafi ya bose bahunze igihugu. Akoresha akenshi ibyo birego ku bantu banze kwemera imitegekere ye irimo igitugu. Iyo utarezwe jenoside, uregwa guhungabanya umutekano cyangwa ubujura. Ni uburyo busanzwe iyo leta ukoresha nanjye ako karengane kangezeho.
Iyo urebye ingufu zashyizwe mu bihano badukatiye uko turi bane, kunkatira imyaka 24 y’igifungo ndahari, ntabwo ari icyaha cyo kunyereza umutungo.
Ntabwo nigeze niba, kandi iyo mba naribye bari kundega imbere y’urukiko nkiri mu buyobozi. Birumbikana ko ari ikinyoma kandi Kagame agendera ku binyoma, ariko igihe kirabaze.
Uravuga ko igihe kirimo kujyana Leta ya Kigali. Wayoboye ingabo z’u Rwanda muri Congo mu gihe cyashize. Utekereza ko u Rwanda rufite uruhare mu bibera muri Congo (intambara ya M23)?
Nibyo nagize uruhare mu ntambara yo muri Congo hagati ya 1997 na 2002. Nibyo ingabo z’u Rwanda zagize uruhare ziracyanafite uruhare mu ntambara ya Congo. N’uyu munsi, abasirikare b’u Rwanda baracyari muri Congo. Ikindi cy’ingenzi ni uko M23 itabaho ni ikintu cyaremwe na Leta y’u Rwanda.
Ese ubona bishoboka ko ingabo zishinzwe amahoro muri Congo zitewe akanyabugabo na Tanaziya n’Afrika y’Epfo zishobora gutuma Leta y’u Rwanda ibazwa uruhare rwayo mu bikorwa bibi bibera muri Congo?
Ntibishoboka kubeshya isi yose igihe cyose. Ibinyoma bya Kagame byafashe indi ntera. Ntabwo agishoboye kubeshya amahanga, umuryango w’ibihugu by’Afrika y’amajyepfo (SADC) n’abandi bose barangije kubona ko Paul Kagame akoresha Jenoside nk’urwitwazo.
Aho gukoresha Jenoside nk’ibyago byagwiririye abanyarwanda, yahinduwe intwaro ya politiki n’ububanyi n’amahanga. Yakoreshejwe mu gutera Congo inakoreshwa mu gutera ubwoba ibihugu by’abaturanyi. Ikinyoma cyararangiye igihe kirageze cyo kuvuga ukuri. Ndashimira umuryango mpuzamahanga ko wageze aho ukumva ukuri. Bishobora kuba byaratinze ariko burya gutinda siko guhera.
Imwe mu mitungo y’umuherwe w’umunyarwanda uba muri Afrika y’Epfo, Tribert Rujugiro. Navuga k’inzu y’ubucuruzi ifite agaciro ka Miliyoni 20 z’amadolari izwi ku izina rya Union Trade Centre yafatiriwe na Leta y’u Rwanda ngo kubera ko uwo muherwe yaba agushyigikiye.
Nyamwasa yabaye urwitwazo mu kwikiza abantu Kagame adashaka. Mu myaka ya za 1990 yari Sebarenzi bashoboraga kwica uwo ariwe wese ufite icyo ahuriyeho nawe. Nyuma hagerwaho Pasteur Bizimungu, ubu hagezwe Tribert Rujugiro. Ubundi Rujugiro yahunze mbere yanjye nyuma aba ari njye ugerwaho.
Hari ikindi wakongera ku byo umaze kuvuga?
Yego. Nifuzaga kubwira abanyarwanda n’inshuti z’u Rwanda haba muri Afrika cyangwa mu rwego mpuzamahanga ko tugiye gutangira igikorwa nyacyo cyo kubohoza igihugu vuba aha. Abayobozi bariho mu Rwanda bibye ubutegetsi abaturage.
Inzego z’ubutabera ntabwo zikora, inteko ishingamategeko ifitwe kandi ikorera inyungu z’umuntu umwe ari we Paul Kagame. Leta y’u Rwanda n’urwego rw’ubuyobozi ruri mu ntoki z’umuntu umwe, wikorera icyo ashatse cyose.
Ubu igitugu igihe cyacyo cyo kurangira cyarageze, abanyarwanda bamaze kugera aho badashobora kwihangana, bamaze kurakara, kandi ibyo bizeraga sibyo babonye.
Nakwizeza abanyarwanda n’inshuti zidushyigikiye ko igitugu kigiye kuvaho vuba mu Rwanda.
Inkuru ya Robert Mukombozi
Yashyizwe mu Kinyarwanda na Marc Matabaro wa The Rwandan