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Publié par La Tribune Franco-Rwandaise

Ikiganiro TFR (La Tribune franco-rwandaise) yagiranye na Ambassaderi Jean-Marie Ndagijimana ku bivugwa muli iki gihe ku mutwe wa FDLR (Forces Démocratiques pour la libération du Rwanda)

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tfr : FDLR ni iki, amateka yayo ni ayahe?



ndagijimanaAmbassaderi Ndagijimana : FDLR ni umutwe w’ingabo ugizwe na bamwe mu bahoze ali Ingabo z’u Rwanda mbere ya 1994 (FAR), hiyongereyeho n’izindi mpunzi z’abanyarwanda mu cyahoze ali Zaïre.  Twibuke ko guhera mu mpera za 1996 kugera muli 1997, ingabo za FPR-Inkotanyi zateye amakambi y’impunzi muli Zaïre zitsembatsemba abanyarwanda bo mu bwoko bw’abahutu barenga ibihumbi 300 nkuko raporo za LONI zabitangaje, kugeza aho Rapport mapping yo mu wa 2010 ihamya ko ubwo bwicanyi ali ibikorwa by’itsembabwoko (jenoside) byakorewe izo mpunzi z’abahutu. Birumvikana ko muli iyo ntambara abahoze ali abasilikari b’u Rwanda (FAR) mbere ya 1994 bagarageje kurengera impunzi uko bashoboye. Nyuma yaho, bashyizeho umutwe mushya w’ingabo witwaga ALIR, waje gusenyuka, nyuma hashingwa FDLR igizwe cyane cyane n’abasore n’inkumi bahunze bakili abana, balimo n’abavukiye muli Zaïre, ni ukuvuga ko abo basore batali mu Rwanda igihe cy’itsembabwoko ryakorewe Abatutsi. Muli iki gihe abo basore n’inkumi nibo benshi muli FDLR kuko abenshi mu bahoze ali aba FAR bashaje bakareka imilimo ya gisilikari. Nkulikije uko mbizi, nubwo izina ryayo rivuga ko igamije kubohoza u Rwanda, FDLR ntibereyeho nta nubwo igamije gutera u Rwanda, ahubwo ishinzwe kurengera impunzi zikili mu buhungiro mu mashyamba ya RDC, kugira ngo batahuke mu rwababyaye mu buryo bw’amahoro. Intwaro bazikoresha iyo ingabo z’u Rwanda zibateye. Nahamya ko iyo ingabo za FDLR zitaba zihari impunzi zo muli RDC zali kurimbuka.

TFR : Perezida wa Tanzaniya Kikwete aherutse gusaba ko Leta y’u Rwanda yagirana ibiganiro na FDLR, mu rwego rwo gushakira RD Congo amahoro arambye. Ubivugaho iki?

Ambassaderi Ndagijimana : Ndabishyigikiye byimazeyo. Icyifuzo cya prezida Kikwete kijyanye n’inshingano maranye igihe zo guhuza abanyarwanda, gihuje n’ibihe tugezemo kandi kijya mu nzira y’amahoro, y’ubumwe n’ubwiyunge hagati y’abanyarwanda bose. Abagize FDLR ni abanyarwanda nk’abandi. Ikibabaje nuko aho kugira ngo abayobozi b’u Rwanda babonereho inzira yo gutangira ibiganiro byubaka nkuko umuturanyi wacu yabitugiriyemo inama, ahubwo bifashe mu gahanga bakamuturka baramwandagaza, kugeza naho bamwise interahamwe. Biyibagije ko Prezida Kikwete yatowe n’abaturage ba Tanzaniya, igihugu cy’inshuti y’u Rwanda n’abanyarwanda. Kumwiyenzaho, kumutuka no kumwitirira ibyo atigeze avuga ni ukubangamira amahoro mu karere, no kwanduza umubano mwiza hagati y’abanyarwanda n’abatanzaniya. Ku giti cyanjye nshyigikiye igitekerezo cya prezida Kikwete asangiye n’abandi bayobozi b’ibihugu byinshi byo mu karere kacu, by’umwihariko ibyo mu muryango wa SADCC.
 

TFR : Mbese MONUC n'ingabo za Kongo ko ziri kwiyemeza "gutsemba" abagize FDLR, ingaruka z'iyo ntambara ni izihe? FDLR nitsindwa nka M23, Kongo n'akarere k'ibiyaga bigali kose bazaba babonye amahoro arambye nkuko Kagame abyemeza?

Ambassaderi Ndagijimana : Sinemera ko LONI yakwongera gukora amakosa nk’ayo muli 1994 na nyuma yaho. Ingabo za FDLR zishobora kuba zikora amakosa nk’abandi bose, aliko ntizigeze zivuga ko zishaka kwigarurira igice cya RDC cyangwa gutera u Rwanda. Icyo FDLR ishaka ni ugutaha mu Rwanda, aliko ntitahe ali ingaruzwamuheto, impunzi ntizitahe ziboshye zicirwa mu maso, zitwa ibirura nkuko mwabibonye kuli za videos zicicikana kuli internet. Nongere mbivuge, abagize FDLR ni abanyarwanda nk’abandi. Simvuze ko ali abamalayika, aliko kandi FDLR si shitani nkuko guverinoma ya Kagame ibivuga igamije kubangisha abanyarwanda. Niba halimo abakoze itsembatsemba, bazashyirwe ahagaragara ubucamanza bubishinzwe bubakulikirane, aliko kuvuga ngo aba FDLR bose ni aba jenosideri sibyo na busa. Ni nkaho wavuga ko abo muli FPR bose ali abicanyi, cyangwa ko ali abajenosideri kubera ko FPR yakoze ibikorwa bya jenoside hagati ya 1993 na 2003 ku butaka bwa Zaïre/RDC nkuko LONI yabivuze muli Rapport mapping. Icyaha ni gatozi. Monusco na FARDC baramutse bateye impunzi mu mashyamba ya RDC, hakwongera hagapfa inzirakarengane nyinshi, kandi ntagihamya ko iyo ntambara yarangira vuba nkuko babikeka.
Abanyapolitiki n’abagize sosiyete civile b’abanyarwanda bashyigikiye ubumwe n’amahoro bali bakwiye kwikusanya, bakajya inama, bakegera LONI n’ibihugu by’ibihangange biyigize, bakabasobanulira ingaruka mbi z’iyo ntambara Monusco itegura. Tugomba gusaba ko impunzi z’abanyarwanda zo muli RD Congo n’ahandi hose zitahuka mu mahoro, nyuma y’ibiganiro twagira kuli icyo kibazo. Nibwo buryo bwiza bwonyine bwafasha abanyarwanda kwiyunga. Ndibutsa ko FDLR yasabye ko Monusco yakwiga uburyo bwiza FDLR yashyira intwaro hasi hakaba ibiganiro by’itahuka mu mahoro.

TFR : Hari abanyarwanda "bari muri opozisiyo" batekereza ko kwifatanya na FDLR byaba ari ikosa rikomeye rya politiki kuko yashinzwe kandi ikaba inarimo abakoze jenoside yakorewe abatutsi. Ni iyihe myumvire yawe kuri iki kibazo gishyushye muri iki gihe? Uvuga iki ku byaha ndengakamere iregwa na LONI, Leta zunze ubumwe bwa Amerika, HRW, ... yakoze kandi igikorera ku butaka bwa Kongo?

Ambassaderi Ndagijimana : FDLR si shitani, na FPR si abamalayika ! Baca umugani mu kinyarwanda ngo « inkoni ikubise mukeba uyirenza urugo ». Abanyapolitiki bo muli « opozisiyo » bifuza cyangwa bavuga ko LONI igomba gufasha ubutegetsi bwa Kagame kurimbura FDLR, ntaho bataniye n’abishimira iyicwa rya Koloneli Patrick Karegeya cyangwa abababajwe n’uko Jenerali Kayumba Nyamwasa yarusimbutse. Wowe utunga agatoki FDLR ukayigerekaho ibyaha ishobora kuba itarakoze, ubwirwa n’iki ko ejo atali wowe utahiwe ? Nibyo koko ntitugomba gushyigikira abagome n’abicanyi, aliko kandi ntitugomba kwigira abacamanza ngo dusabe ko Kanaka cyangwa Kanaka afatwa akajyanwa mu rukiko mpuzamahanga y’i La Haye. Keretse tubifitiye gihamya. Abicanyi bose bagomba gufatwa kimwe, baba bali muli FDLR cyangwa muli FPR.
Ikindi tutagomba kwibagirwa nuko inyuma ya buri musilikari wa FDLR hali umugore we, abana be, n’izindi mpunzi nyinshi. Imyifatire y’abanyapolitiki ku kibazo cya FDLR ntikwiye kurangwa n’ubwoba. Abahora basaba ibiganiro bitavangura (dialogue interrwandais hautement inclusif), ntibali bakwiye kwanga kuganira cyangwa gukorana na FDLR. Abakoze ibyaha bali muli FDLR bagomba kubihanirwa aliko ntibyitilirwe ingabo za FDLR zose.

TFR : Hari abatekereza ko abanyamashyaka ya politiki baziyunga na FDLR bazahita bitwa abajenosideri bakoresha iterabwoba nkuko byabaye kuli ba Mbarushimana, Murwanashyaka, n’abandi... bityo bagafatwa, bagafungwa maze opozisiyo ikaba izimye burundu. Wababwira iki?

Ambassaderi Ndagijimana : Aha urashaka kuvuga PM Faustin Twagiramungu na bagenzi be biyemeje guhuza amashyaka aharanira demokarasi. Ku bwanjye nsanga bakwiye gushimwa no gushyigikirwa by’umwihariko. Ntitugomba kubatera umugongo ngo nuko Leta y’u Rwanda ibise interahamwe cyangwa abajenosideri kandi tuzi neza ko atali byo. Abo bitera ubwoba nuko nta kwemera kwa politiki bafite. Ntawe utinya inkuba ali munsi y’ijuru. Icyo nabwira abavandimwe bacu bashaka kuzayobora u Rwanda mu myaka izaza, nuko bagomba kugira ubutwari bwa politiki « courage politique », ntibakoreshe umunzani ukoreshwa n’ingoma y’igitugu y’i Kigali. Umunyapolitiki wo muli opozisiyo ushaka gushimwa n’ingoma ya Kagame ashatse yava muli opozosiyo akayoboka FPR.
Icyo nasaba amashyaka yitwaje intwaro ni uguhumuriza abanyarwanda, akarahira ko ubuzima bw’abanyarwanda bufite agaciro karuta ibindi byose kandi ko atazongera kumena amaraso y’ abanyarwanda. Niyo mpamvu abashobora kuba baramennye amaraso bali bakwiye kubisabira imbabazi, bakikura mu bandi kugira ngo batabasiga ubwandu. 

TFR : Abanyarwanda benshi bemeranya ko amahano akomeje kugwira u Rwanda kuva imyaka myinshi aterwa n'inzego z'umutekano zagiye ziharirwa n'ubwoko bumwe. Mbese uwasangiza amoko atuye u Rwanda ubutegetsi bwa politiki ku buryo bushimishije, inzego z'umutekano (igisilikari, polisi, ... ) bigakomeza kwiharirwa n'ubwoko bumwe kuko ari bwo buzi kandi bukunda kurwana, hari icyo bitwaye?


Ambassaderi Ndagijimana : Uwo muti w’igice nt’uhagije kuvura kanseri yokamye abanyarwanda. Ubutegetsi bwa gisivili bugomba gusangirwa, aliko n’inzego z’umutekano zigomba guhuriramo n’abanyarwanda b’amoko yose n’uturere twose. Nkuko dukunze kubivuga mu milimo y’Inteko y’ubumwe, amahoro n’ubwiyunge, u Rwanda rugomba kuba urwa twese, rukabera twese, buli munyarwanda akumva ko inzego zose z’ubutegetsi bwa gisivili, bwa gisilikari cyangwa bwa gipolisi zibahagaraliye bose kandi kimwe. Mbese hakabaho ubutegetsi umunyarwanda wese yibonamo. Iyo igisilikari cyangwa igipolisi kigizwe n’abakomoka mu muryango umwe cyangwa mu bwoko bumwe, abandi bahora bafite ubwoba ko bashobora kurimburwa nkuko byagiye bigenda mu myaka ishize. Nta bwoko buzi cyangwa bukunda kurwana kurusha ubundi. Biterwa n’ibihe uko bigenda bisimburana.


TFR : Hari abavuga ko FDLR yabaye iturufu ya politiki Kagame na FPR bakoresha kuburyo kubaho kwa FDLR ari "kaze neza mboga zizanye" kuri Kagame na FPR." Wabwira iki abatekereza ko kwiyunga no kwishyira hamwe na FDLR ari uguha Kagame na Museveni intandaro (une cause légitime) yo kongera gutera no gusubira muri Kongo kwiba no kwica imfubyi z'abahutu zari zisigaye?

Ambassaderi Ndagijimana : Abanyarwanda bakuze bibuka ko kuva muli 90 abataravugaga rumwe na prezida Habyarimana bamuregaga ko igisilikari cy’u Rwanda yagihinduye icye n’akazu ke, yitwaza FPR kugira ngo agume ku butegetsi. Bashobora kuba baravugaga ukuri ku ruhande rumwe, aliko burya ikinyoma ntigitinda kugaragara. Kagame ntashobora gukomeza kwitwaza FDLR ngo byemerwe. Abana b’abasore bahoze bamurinda muli FPR asanga i Buganda akabicirayo cyangwa akabashimuta ni aba FDLR ? Kayumba Nyamwasa ni umu FDLR ? Nyakwigendera Karegeya yali FDLR ? Seth Sendashonga yali FDLR ? Lizinde yali FDLR ? Imbohe y’inzirakarengane Deo Mushayidi ni FDLR ? Imbohe y’inzirakarengane Victoire Ingabire ni FDLR ? Imbohe y’inzirakarengane Maître Ntaganda ni FDLR ? Imbohe y’inzirakarengane Docteur Niyitegeka ni FDLR ?
Andre Kagwa Rwisereka Kagame yaciye umutwe yali FDLR ?
Iyicwa cyangwa ifungwa ry’aba bose bazira ubusa bigaragaza ko iturufu ya FDLR ali urwitwazo. Nongere mpumurize abanyarwanda bali mu Rwanda ko abakorera politiki mu mahanga batifuza na busa ko hakwongera kuba intambara imena amaraso y’abanyarwanda. Tubahamagariye gutegura imitima bayiganisha mu nzira y’ubwiyunge bushingiye ku kuvugisha ukuli, kubabarirana no kurwanya politike mbi yakwongera kubacamo ibice ikabazanamo umwiryane w’amoko n’ibindi byose byatumye u Rwanda rutemba amaraso. Twese turamutse twishyize hamwe, tugahamya ko tureshya nk’ibiremwamuntu, tukibuka ko tuli abantu mbere yo kuba abanyarwanda nkuko umuririmbyi Kizito Mihigo yabitwibukije, nta kibuza u Rwanda twarubanamo neza kandi mu bumwe, mu mutuzo no mu mutekano.  

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